Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/27/1998 08:10 AM Senate FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
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MINUTES SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE 27 March 1998 8:10 a.m. TAPES SFC-98, #102, Sides A and B CALL TO ORDER Senator Drue Pearce, Co-chair, convened the meeting at approximately 8:10 a.m. PRESENT In addition to Co-chair Pearce, Senators Donley, Torgerson and Parnell were present when the meeting was convened. Senators Phillips, Adams and Sharp arrived respectively thereafter. Also Attending: DWIGHT PERKINS, Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner, Department of Labor; ARBE WILLIAMS, Director, Administrative Services, Department of Labor; MIKE ANDREWS, Executive Director, Alaska Human Resource Investment Council; DAVE REESE, member, Alaska Human Resource Investment Council; PAM LABOLLE, President, Alaska State Chamber of Commerce; DOUGLAS GRIFFIN, Director, Alcoholic Beverage Control Board, Department of Revenue; DON DAPCEVICH, Executive Director, Governor's Advisory Board on Alcoholism and Drug Abuse, Department of Health and Social Services; BARBARA THOMPSON, Director, Teaching and Learning Support, Department of Education; DIANE BARRANS, Executive Director, Post Secondary Education Commission, Department of Education; MIKE MCMULLIN, Personnel Manager, Division of Personnel, Department of Administration; KIMBERLY METCALFE- HELMAR, Special Assistant, Office of the Commissioner, Department of Community and Regional Affairs; DON ETHERIDGE, Business Agent, Alaska State District Council of Laborers; STAN LEAPHART, Executive Director, Citizens' Advisory Commission; DENNIS POSHARD, Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner, Department of Transportation and Public Facilities; aides to committee members and other members of the Legislature. Via Teleconference: OCIE ADAMS, member, Road Service Area Advisory Board, Matanuska-Susitna Borough from Anchorage; JIM SWING, Parks and Recreation, Matanuska-Susitna Borough Administration and Assembly from Anchorage; PAT POLAND, Director, Division of Municipal and Regional Assistance, Department of Community and Regional Affairs from Anchorage; MIKE CUSHING, Research and Analysis, Division of Municipal and Regional Assistance, Department of Community and Regional Affairs from Anchorage SUMMARY INFORMATION SENATE BILL NO. 334 "An Act relating to guidelines and standards for state training programs; and relating to the Alaska Human Resource Investment Council." Co-chair Pearce explained the agenda for bill hearings. She advised that SB 334 was a Senate Finance sponsored bill being led by Senator Torgerson. It was noted that at the last hearing a work draft of CSSB 334(FIN) had been moved. Senator Adams objected and there was some discussion, at which time the objection was removed. The bill was not formally adopted. Therefore, Senator Torgerson MOVED the committee adopt CSSB 334(FIN), version "H", dated 3/24/98 and WITHOUT OBJECTION it was ADOPTED as the working version before the committee. Senator Torgerson provided the committee with an overview of the bill. He asked that after his explanation any amendments be discussed before the taking of public testimony. He felt this may put many at ease. He indicated he had approximately four amendments that he would like the committee to consider. He said he would follow the sectional analysis. The subcommittee was created last July by Co-chair Pearce to look into all of the training programs in the State to see if the responsibilities were being carried out under AHRIC (Alaska Human Resources Investment Council). He explained that the program expends in the State approximately $93.8 million and it is a relatively large program. There are thirty-four different training programs within the State. Through their research they found many programs did not come directly under AHRIC. He said they were creations of legislation that left the committees under individual departments and there was no entity looking at their performance. It was also found there were no standard performance measures for the programs or for administrative costs. This bill would attempt to correct this and put AHRIC in direct oversight to assess the programs. Senator Torgerson then briefly reviewed the sections for the committee. Senator Torgerson MOVED amendment #1. He requested that with this amendment the bill be held pending corrected fiscal notes. WITHOUT OBJECTION amendment #1 was ADOPTED. Senator Torgerson MOVED amendment #3. Senator Pearce OBJECTED and then REMOVED her OBJECTION. WITHOUT OBJECTION amendment #2 was ADOPTED. Senator Torgerson MOVED amendment #4 and WITHOUT OBJECTION it was ADOPTED. Senator Torgerson MOVED amendment #5 and WITHOUT OBJECTION it was ADOPTED. Senator Torgerson MOVED amendment #6. He explained that it was a re-write of amendment #2, which was not offered. WITHOUT OBJECTION amendment #6 was ADOPTED. Senator Torgerson MOVED amendment #7 and explained that it was a technical amendment on page 4, line 2, deleting "section" and inserting "sector". WITHOUT OBJECTION it was ADOPTED. Mike Andrews, Executive Director, Alaska Human Resource Investment Council testified via teleconference from Anchorage. He explained that the council was made up of Commissioners and members from the private sector. He felt that SB 334 was good legislation and has worked closely with committee members, subcommittee members and others regarding the relevancy of performance measures, the evaluation of job training programs and the return on public investment. Co-chair Pearce said she was reluctant to hold the bill pending corrected fiscal notes because the committee wants to get all bills out by 7 April 1998. Senator Torgerson and Dwight Perkins, Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner, Department of Labor discussed possible department amendment on page 7, line 21 of the bill. Mr. Perkins said there was still some tracking being done. Mr. Andrews said he had no problem with the proposed Department of Labor amendment. Mr. Perkins further stated he was willing to work closely with Senator Torgerson in ironing out a few more possible amendments. He noted page 3, section 6 and said the council should be able to tap more from the private sector and not be limited. Page 6, section 9 regarding administrative costs would have to be further discussed with Senator Torgerson. He completed his brief summation regarding expenses and administrative burdens and training programs on page 7 and 8, section 10(f). He said he felt the fiscal note would be reduced. Senator Torgerson MOVED amendment #8 and explained how it would decrease the Department of Labor fiscal note. WITHOUT OBJECTION it was ADOPTED. Barbara Thompson, Director, Teaching and Learning Support, Department of Education was invited to join the committee. She noted her appreciation of amendment #4 and made a few suggestions to improve the bill. She explained administrative costs as compared to Federal grants. Mike McMullin, Personnel Manager, Division of Personnel, Department of Administration was invited to join the committee. He noted a handout distributed to committee members. He said the department felt the Alaska Professional Development Institute was fundamentally different from the kinds of programs AHRIC supervised and that they should not be included under section (f). They proposed that if not outright removed from the bill that the Institute be moved to section (g) so that AHRIC could still do the assessment and then re-list them in section (g). He said they were more akin to programs of any major employer, i.e., BP, ARCO, IBM and/or major banks. They provide in- house training for their own employees, they are totally funded by receipts generated by provided services and he noted that less than one-sixth of that came from outside the State. (Tape #102, Side A switched to Side B.) Mr. McMullin continued and said that there was some concern with amendment #2, noting that the three-quarters percent was problematic. The budget authorized the APDI was not what they actually receive in funds and for which the assessment would be available to make. They should look at the language that deals with actual money. He further said that the Commissioner of Administration should have a seat on AHRIC, whether voting or non-voting. He said he had passed on a number of technical amendments through the proper channel, however he noted that the committee had not received them. He explained them briefly. Page 2, line 24 should have picked up (a) and (c), a technical amendment. The (c) list people could appoint a substitute for themselves as opposed to a substitute for someone else. Page 3, line 6 was in reference to non-voting commissioners. He said it should delete "and two" and not add (c). Line 17 of the same page he suggested deletion of "appointed" and insertion of "listed" because these were not appointments but rather done by statute. Page 5, line 2 the word "building policies" should be clarified. He said he knew what "developing policies" was. Page 6, line 14 and line 29 with reference to adopting regulations, "under AS 44.62..." language should be added to make it consistent with line 23. Page 7, lines 21 - 24 was a potential "gotcha" by assuming a particular rating scale. With regards to amendment #4 adopted this morning the program was referred to as being in Department of Transportation and it should be corrected to be in Department of Education. Pam LaBolle, President, Alaska State Chamber of Commerce was invited to join the committee. She commended the effort to coordinate all programs, noting this would improve services and cut costs. There was a great need for job and employment training. She felt the executive committee format and the per diem for small business was an improvement. She applauded the results based government approach and said that with administrative cost caps job training dollars would reach where they were most needed. Senator Phillips asked the relationship to welfare reform and if any members had expressed concern to her regarding training programs for welfare recipients? He said that Providence, Arctic Slope and FEDEX had approached him regarding a lack of coordination between State agencies. Ms. LaBolle said she had not been approached. She said she would convey the Senator's suggestion that the State Chamber coordinate help for welfare reform recipients. Co-chair Pearce noted that Yvonne Chase was available via teleconference from Anchorage if there were any questions. Dave Reese, AHRIC member was invited to join the committee. He advised the committee that he had previously been on the committee through Aleyeska Pipeline and was now with BP and still represented an industry on the council. He was currently on the executive committee as well as the employment and placement committee. He has worked on legislation and legislative review of this matter. He explained main points and efficiencies, however felt it would be difficult to oversee performance measures. With reference to section (g) he highly supported language directing the private section. He suggested they might re- look at staff support to the council and said there needs to be enough working capability of staff support. Going back to the early vision of AHRIC he said they needed to focus on still "holding the feet to the fire". Senator Phillips again voiced concern with welfare reform and said the private sector wanted one-stop-shop service. Senator Torgerson said the University would like to come under assessment and said he was working closely with Wendy Redmond. Co-chair Pearce said she would HOLD the bill in committee but wanted action taken by next week if possible. Senator Torgerson advised that he would be ready by next Tuesday. Co-chair Pearce called SB 332. SENATE BILL NO. 236 "An Act extending the termination date of the Citizens' Advisory Commission on Federal Areas in Alaska; and providing for an effective date." CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 236(RES) "An Act extending the termination date of the Citizens' Advisory Commission on Federal Areas in Alaska; and providing for an effective date." Stan Leaphart, Executive Director, Citizens' Advisory Commission was invited to join the committee. He briefly explained the 1997 Annual Report of the Citizens' Advisory Commission, noting major issues. He said the commission was meeting presently at Centennial Hall. Senator Torgerson asked if the fiscal note reflected the amount being currently paid and Mr. Leaphart concurred. Senator Adams asked what the commission was doing about subsistence since the Legislature was not. Mr. Leaphart said that in 1990 with a considerably different membership on the committee a new constitutional amendment had been drafted and submitted that would have hopefully restored management to the State. It was taken no further. He said that currently they monitor the Federal program and the proposed regulations that would implement a Federal fisheries management program. He said they were trying to work within the parameters of the Federal program, while realizing that as an advisory commission they are unable to resolve the issue. He did say their determination was to make sure that at least on Federal Park lands and Federal refuge lands the opportunities would continue for subsistence use and also other wildlife related activities. Senator Torgerson MOVED CSSB 236(RES) and WITHOUT OBJECTION it was REPORTED OUT with individual recommendations and accompanying fiscal note from the Department of Natural Resources in the amount of $93.0. SENATE BILL NO. 332 "An Act relating to the Alaska Student Loan Corporation." Co-chair Pearce called SB 332 and briefly explained the "E" version of the committee substitute noting a zero fiscal note from the Department of Education. Senator Phillips MOVED CSSB 332(), "E" version dated 3/6/98 as working version. Senator Adams OBJECTED. Diane Barrans, Executive Director, Post Secondary Education Commission, Department of Education was invited to join the committee. In response to a query from Senator Adams she said the delinquent loan rate was about 19 percent, which included loans from previous years. At this time they were seeking credit-worthy co-signers for those with bad credit. Senator Adams asked how collections were done and Ms. Barrans explained the process. At this point Senator Adams WITHDREW his OBJECTION. Therefore, WITHOUT OBJECTION, CSSB 332(), "E" version was ADOPTED. Senator Donley commented that some provisions should be added to make sure loans were paid back. Medical students were paying back their loans. In response to Co-chair Pearce's comments, Ms. Barrans indicated there was no companion House Bill. Senator Donley asked the bill be held until next Tuesday because he wanted time to submit an amendment. Co-chair Pearce HELD SB 332. SENATE BILL NO. 233 "An Act extending the termination date of the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board." CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 233(FIN) "An Act relating to membership on the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board; extending the termination date of the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board; relating to sales of beer and wine on a golf course or at a recreational site; relating to notice of alcohol- related arrests; and providing for an effective date." CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 233(RLS) "An Act extending the termination date of the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board; allowing sales of beer and wine by a holder of a recreational site license while recreation is occurring; defining 'recreational site'; defining 'golf course'; and providing for an effective date." She then called SB 233 and explained the new work draft version "E". She said the sunset date would be the year 2002 and it would establish a new license for the golf course. Senator Phillips MOVED CSSB 233, version "E" dated 3/20/98. Senators Donley and Adams OBJECTED. Douglas B. Griffin, Director, Alcoholic Beverage Control Board, Department of Revenue testified via teleconference from Anchorage. He advised the committee that Legislative Budget and Audit came back with a recommendation that they be continued. Three findings in the audit were: (1) the Board did not take into consideration neighborhood concerns regarding license action; (Tape #102, Side B switched to Tape #103, Side A.) ...(2) working closely with government and other State agencies; and (3) providing more teleconference access to ABC meetings. Moving on to the golf course issue, he said there was a separate bill on the House side, sponsored by the House Labor and Commerce Committee, HB 458, which did create a new type of license for golf courses. Many golf courses around the State did have various types of liquor licenses and generally it entailed a restaurant/eating license to be able to serve beer and wine in the clubhouse. Some also had package store licenses to be able to sell alcoholic beverages to take out onto the course. He said the House Labor and Commerce Committee had convinced its' chairman, Representative Norm Rokeberg, to accommodate golf courses with a specialized license. He further noted they had worked closely with the House Labor and Commerce Committee to improve the bill, however, the ABC board is opposed to the golf course license part because it creates a type of license that is not needed. The ABC board is opposed to bringing new licenses in, because in most jurisdictions in the State there are more licenses than the statutory quota as set forth. He said they would, therefore, have some problems with the add-on to the sunset bill. Senator Phillips asked the witness to be more specific as far as the golf course. Was there a particular golf course that was interested in doing this? Mr. Griffin said the Palmer Golf Course was the unique golf course. Senator Phillips said he understood. Senator Torgerson asked if there were other golf courses that were interested in this bill. Mr. Griffin further concurred. He did not have a copy of the Senate CS before him but with regards to the House CSHB 458, latest version, it would apply to any golf course of a certain length. He said this again reverted back to the ABC board concern of creating more licenses. Senator Donley asked if the municipality owned the liquor license or if the contractor did? Mr. Griffin commented and said the contractor or manager owned the liquor license. Co-chair Pearce asked how they sold liquor. Mr. Griffin said they wanted to sell liquor to those to take around the golf course. Presently at the Palmer golf course alcohol cannot be carried off the deck from the clubhouse. He said they advised the golf course they could get where they wanted to go by having a license for a package store on the premise. There is no law for prohibition of public consumption. In response to a query from Co-chair Pearce, Mr. Griffin said if there was a package store license on the premise that would allow for the sale and then the individual could take their purchase out on the course. He said the Anchorage golf course had a package store license and allows for the sale. Senator Phillips asked if "Moose Run" was the same? Mr. Griffin advised that the military was not under their jurisdiction, same as Elmendorf course. Senator Torgerson asked if there was another license that would only authorize the sale of beer after a tournament or during a tournament? Mr. Griffin said there was a recreational license available that one could obtain during a tournament. However, it was restrictive. Senator Torgerson indicated that the golf course in Soldotna was interested but they did not want to have a package store. They just want to be able to serve all the time rather than just during the tournaments. The Senator asked if the language could be changed to authorize the sale within some kind of recreational portion of the course? Mr. Griffin said they could do the same as the Palmer golf course, by obtaining a restaurant/eating place license. It may have to be done under a public convenience situation, however. Senator Donley asked about the findings of the audit. He voiced his concern on recommendation #1 and said the affected neighborhood's objections were not being heard. He noted a duality of responsibility between the government and the board. He said his neighborhoods were very unhappy with this process of where they strongly object to the assembly, however, they do not consider what the neighborhoods recommend, but rather only what the assembly recommends. He suggested the board should have the responsibility for considering the neighborhood concerns and to balance out the problem. A further concern of Senator Donley's was the structure of the board consisting of three public members and two industry members. However, one public member position had been vacant since 31 January of last year. That resulted in a two-two vote. Perhaps this was biased. He suggested filling the vacant position. Concerning illegal gambling he felt the board was not receiving information to be able to enforce mandatory penalties now in statute. This should be addressed before the sunset date expires. Co-chair Pearce voiced concern over pages 18 and 19. She said she did not condone this behavior of State investigators being licensed to carry firearms. If an investigator felt they needed armed security then they should take along the police. Don Dapcevich, Executive Director, Governor's Advisory Board on Alcoholism and Drug Abuse, Department of Health and Social Services was invited to join the committee. He said it was counter-productive to make or encourage alcohol a part of sports. He could not understand why the bill was being advanced. Co-chair Pearce noted the presence of Senator Sharp. He said he knew of very few golf courses in the Lower '48 that would not allow this. He explained that this bill is only applicable to golf courses that were fenced. He thought it was a far stretch to say beer and wine drinking on a golf course would lead to DWI. Further, he stated, in order to attract charity tournaments, those paying $100 to participate would like to have a cold beer. Mr. Dapcevich said the DWI incidents were mentioned in previous testimony given with HB 458. They would like to have the license in order to be able to better control DWI's. Senator Sharp asked if military base golf courses were required to have liquor licenses to sell beer or wine on their courses? Mr. Dapcevich said the military base courses were exempt from licenses issued by the State. They have their own rules regarding licensing. He has also played golf on many courses that do not allow drinking, especially municipal courses. When there is a tournament they apply for a special day license. Senator Phillips WITHDREW his motion to ADOPT CSSB 233, version "E". Senator Sharp MOVED CSSB 233. Senator Adams OBJECTED. He said he objected to the inclusion of golf courses in this bill. It should be a separate issue or taken up with HB 458. Co-chair Pearce ordered an at ease at approximately 10:15 a.m. She called the committee back to order at 10:20 a.m. Senator Sharp MOVED to WITHDRAW the motion to ADOPT CSSB 233. Co-chair Pearce HELD the bill in committee while Senators Sharp and Donley worked on some proposed amendments. Co-chair Pearce called SB 263. SENATE BILL NO. 263 "An Act relating to secondary roads; and providing for an effective date." CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 263 (TRA) "An Act relating to secondary roads; and providing for an effective date." Senator Torgerson requested the committee consider SB 264 first. However, Co-chair Pearce said the committee would take up SB 263 so public testimony could be taken. OCIE ADAMS via teleconference from Mat-Su advised the committee that he was "listen only" and had no testimony to offer. He said he had no recommendations for any changes and supported the bill. JIM SWING via teleconference from Mat-Su. (Due to poor quality of the teleconference service this individual's testimony is unintelligible.) Co-chair Pearce SET ASIDE SB 263 and called SB 264. SENATE BILL NO. 264 "An Act relating to aid for municipal road maintenance; and providing for an effective date." CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 264(TRA) "An Act relating to aid for municipal road maintenance, and to the transfer of roads to municipalities; and providing for an effective date." Co-chair Pearce noted that there was a transportation committee CS in members' files. Senator Torgerson explained that the bill would remove the current municipal road maintenance office out of the State- shared revenue statutes and makes it a stand-alone program. The new program would adopts the same eligibility and requirements as the old program. It further asked the revenue sharing for roads be increased to $1000/mile from the current level. It is the intent of the legislation that the balance of approximately $4 million be put into another program that would be available for the upgrade and transfer of roads from State to local governments. This would create a stable funding source for the road program. Senator Adams said he opposed this legislation. He did not feel this would bring stability to other parts of the statute. With regards to section 4, which provided the motor fuel collections would be deposited into a separate account. They would have to go back and look at the current status of revenue sharing. There is a cost of living for roads and hospitals, but what is being done under this is placing a flat fee of $1000/mile and that is a concern to many of his rural communities. Senator Torgerson advised his colleague that rural communities get revenue sharing for roads also. He concurred with Senator Adams that perhaps they were taking the strongest link out of what is left of revenue sharing by removing this program. However, that is the reason that it is being taken out. It is a high priority. It is not feasible to hold the entire revenue sharing program harmless because this program is mixed in with it. This program needs to be removed and shored up with additional funds, establish the road transfer program, which would allow local governments to take over some of the roads. Senator Torgerson MOVED amendment #1. Senator Adams OBJECTED. He said he did not know the impact of this amendment. (Tape #103, Side A switched to Side B.) By a hand vote of 5 yeas (Pearce, Sharp, Donley, Torgerson, Parnell) and 1 nay (Adams) the amendment was ADOPTED. Senator Torgerson MOVED amendment #2. Senator Adams OBJECTED. He felt it should be in the capital budget. Senator Torgerson concurred that it should be in the capital budget before Senator Sharp. However, they needed something to act on. By a hand vote of 5 yeas (Pearce, Sharp, Donley, Torgerson, Parnell) and 1 nay (Adams) the amendment was ADOPTED. Co-chair Pearce noted for the committee that fiscal note #3, Department of Transportation and Public Facilities was an update for fiscal note #1. Dennis Poshard, Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner, Department of Transportation and Public Facilities was invited to join the committee. He said the STIP communities compete for funding of projects. He explained the revenue sharing of maintenance of roads and noted a current cap of $3,000 depending on the appropriation. He said 5,000 road miles currently receive revenue sharing and felt this legislation would make false commitments to municipalities. He had no comments to the amendments. Pat Poland, Director, Division of Municipal and Regional Assistance, Department of Community and Regional Affairs testified via teleconference from Anchorage. He said the department would like to see a more comprehensive program and not a program where urban areas were winners and rural areas were losers. He explained a few minor technical concerns and said he could get his written comments to the committee. Mike Cushing, Research and Analysis, Division of Municipal and Regional Assistance, Department of Community and Regional Affairs was invited to join the committee. He did not have any further comments to add to Mr. Poland's testimony. Jim Swing, Parks and Recreation, Matanuska-Susitna Borough testified via teleconference from Mat-Su on behalf of the borough administration and assembly. He said they strongly supported the bill and welcomed the reimbursement level. Ocie Adams, member, Road Service Area Advisory Board to the Matanuska-Susitna Borough testified via teleconference from Mat-Su. He also indicated they supported the bill. Senator Torgerson MOVED CSSB 264(FIN). Senator Adams OBJECTED. He said the bill would take money from rural areas and that it belonged under the capital project. Under section 4 the 37.5% was dedicated to roads and it could have a potential constitutional problem because of dedication of roads. He feels the bill will hurt rural Alaska. Co-chair Pearce pointed out that subsistence was unconstitutional, also, but that was why they were spending time trying to fix it. Senator Adams said the way to fix subsistence was to vote on a constitutional amendment with rural preference. Senator Torgerson said the bill was not an attack on rural Alaska. He said it would reimburse $1000/mile. It was a novel concept to pay one to do something and then expect that it be done. By a roll call vote of 4 yeas (Pearce, Sharp, Donley, Torgerson ) and 1 nay (Adams) CSSB 264(FIN) was REPORTED OUT with individual recommendations and accompanying fiscal notes from the Department Revenue, zero; and Department of Transportation and Public Facilities, $38.5. Co-chair Pearce HELD SB 263 until Tuesday. There followed miscellaneous conversation regarding the committee schedule. ADJOURNMENT Co-chair Pearce recessed the committee at approximately 11:02 a.m. until Saturday at 9:00 a.m. SFC-98 -14- 3/27/98
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